bleeding rear brakes

[boston350]

So I've got the 350 up and running pretty good I think. When I got it there was no rear caliper on it, so I picked one up used, cleaned and lubed it up. Got it bolted in and adjusted I think so tried to bleed/fill the system.
There was nothing in the reservoir to start with so I filled it about 3/4 full and started the bleed process using some tubing and a can half full of fluid.
I am following the instructions, peddle down, open then close the bleeder, release the peddle - repeat.
Been at it for about 30 minutes now, with no sign of fluid leaving the reservoir, no fluid or air from the bleeder.
Anyone know how long it should take to get to that point from a completely dry system?

Thanks!

 

[DeadLastRacing]

it should take lil bit but I dunno about 30 mins. Its a proccess, just make sure you always have fluid in your resovour when your doing it. Any leaks at all? you getting any bubbles in the system? When you open it up and push down, let it sit for a second or two and do that for a lil bit, helps the line fill up better. You useing DOT3 or DOT4, Use DOT4.

 

[tyler]

Or you can always do it the really fast and simple way that i do it! I took another lid that goes on the resovour drilled a hole in it and the seal thing that goes under it, take the air blower on the air compressor open the bleeder and shoot air through the lid to force fluid through the line and caliber, it will run out of fluid fast to watch out for that. When there is a steady stream of fluid shooting out of the caliber hurry and shut the bleeder valve and its done!! Here is a picture of the extra lid i use to bleed the rear brakes.

 

[boston350]

nice, I might have to find an extra lid.
no leaks that I can find or hear. DOT4.
not seeing any bubbles in the catch can.

 

[tyler]

But make sure you get that seal thing thats under the lid or it wont work. Trust me i tried it.

 

[yamarider]

I never heard of using tyler's method to bleed brakes. Kinda sketchy, sounds like a good way to blow out seals.

Brakes are a real bitch to bleed when the lines are dry though, I use a $25 vacuum bleeder from Harbor Freight to bleed the brakes for everything I own, works easy without a second person. The way the master cylinders on these work, they almost have to have a little bit of pressure built up against the master cylinder piston for them to really build pressure, and with the lines full of air, that's not going to happen. Before I got my vacuum I had 2 half-assed last resort methods of getting fluid in the lines.

One method, although slower, is safer. Basically just fill the reservoir, and let it sit overnight or for a few days if needed. This method was hit or miss with me, sometimes it worked and it got fluid in the lines, other times nothing happened at all and I resorted to stage 2 hillbilly method outlined below.

Hillbilly stage 2 method was basically sucking brake fluid through the line like a straw (not recommended, brake fluid tastes like **** and burns worse than everclear and 'shine). Got the job done but i'll probably get cancer in 3 years because of it. Looking back, probably wouldn't have been a totally bad idea to try incorporating the use of a shop-vac first.

Either way, the preferred method is definitely still a vacuum bleeder, much less messy, quicker, reliable, better tasting, and non-carcinogenic (for Tyler, that big word means a "cancer causing substance." Kinda like that weird lump that grows on your mom's neck that she flicks off with a pocket knife sometimes.)

Sorry Tyler, everybody else is letting ya have it, i gotta get my fill in.

 

[boston350]

Ok, I will let it sit for a day try it again, and maybe the next day - and look into vac bleeder you mentioned - I do need to do the truck in the spring.
does it need a special adapter for the reservoir cap?

 

[tyler]

Haha I sure get alotta crap from all of yall guys, but o well I don't get mad very easily thank god lol

 

[yamarider]

does it need a special adapter for the reservoir cap?

No, vacuum bleeders attach to the bleeder on the caliper, not the reservoir. It will pull the fluid down through the system along with any air in it. The kit comes with adapters for different uses as it's not only for bleeding brakes, and it will also come with an in-line canister that will hold the fluid that gets pumped through. If that doesn't make sense it'll make more sense when you actually see the kit.

 

[boston350]

Thanks - I have a harbor freight around the corner.
I see two listed on their website - http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92924
and
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92474

manual pump vs shop air - is the 2nd one the version you use?

thanks!

 

[tyler]

might as well get the air powered on since they cost the same.

 

[yamarider]

I use the manual pump, more reliable, more versatile, less frustrating, and no air supply needed. I never used the pneumatic one but it requires a master cylinder adapter. Basically just a more professionaly built verion of what Tyler does. It only includes 4 master cylinder adapters and I guarantee they're all for automotive applications, so if you want to do it pneumatically you might as well just do it like Tyler said, just be careful to regulate your air pressure going in, the reservoir itself isn't designed to handle pressure and it's not a stretch for it to crack or blow out a seal.

I'd still go for the hand pump though, mine has come in handy a lot more times than I ever thought it would. Among other things, you can use it to test automotive vacuum systems for leaks, you can use it to suck old fluid out of the master cylinders before putting the new stuff in, with a longer hose I even used mine to drain the fuel out of my motorcycle's tank. And it'll work on any car, truck, atv, motorcycle, etc. without needing any special adapters. I used mine so much that it's about worn out, i'll be getting the same one again before too long, I got my money's worth with the first one.

 

[boston350]

Thanks, I'll run over and see if they have it in stock. will probably get the manual one for it's versatility.

 

[spdfrk1990]

I have a pressure bleeder and a hand pump but I heard a lot of times the best way on a quad is to just crack the bleeder and let it gravity bleed just making sure not to let the res go dry.

 

[boston350]

I picked up the bleeder today, the hand pump one. Had a 20% off coupon too so that was nice.
got the pump assembled and found the right end for the bleeder - pumped it up to about 10 like it said and it would hold the vacuum for about 2 minutes before it would bleed back down on it's own - figured that was good enough to start this process.
pumped it back up to 10, cracked the bleeder and the vacuum pressure dropped back to 0 within 10 seconds. I repeated this and even pumped the pressure up to 15 for about 5 minutes, but nothing coming out. also tried pumping with the bleeder open to see if that would help pull anything along.
So, am I doing something wrong, not waiting long enough for it to pull through, or do I have an air leak somewhere in the system?

Thanks
oh - shouldn't need to do anything with the brake peddle in this process, right?

 

[boston350]

I filled the canister for the pump about half full of fluid. you can hear it sucking air and bubbling now when I crack the bleeder.
went for about 10 minutes straight this time pumping up vac with the bleeder closed, crack it and then shut it before the vac gets back to 0, pump and repeat. lots of air bubbles, but that's it so far.
I think the bleeder might be a little worn, much more than a 1/4 turn and it seems to have a little wobble/play to it. I was going to put some threadtape on it, but can't find it. not sure if it's worth a shot, or just replace the bleeder to see if that helps.

 

[yamarider]

Take the reservoir cap off, and keep the bleeder open the whole time, no reason to close it until you're finished bleeding them. If the reservoir cap is on it'll never bleed through, it'll just form a vapor lock in the reservoir and the fluid won't get pulled through.

I didn't mention it, but I do use a little thread tape on the bleeder or otherwise you'll get a lot more air than fluid through it. Make sure the adapter you're using over the bleeder is good and tight, I actually just use the hose directly over the end of the bleeder, nice tight fit with no chance of leaking, the adapters are soft rubber so not such a tight fit.

 

[yamarider]

Also make the bleeder isn't obstructed when you take it out to thread tape it, dirt and mud and corrosion can build up there and block it, run a paperclip through it if it looks like there's anything in it at all.

 

[boston350]

ok, i'll pick up some more tape tomorrow. the cap is off, but the rubber diaphragm is on - so i'll take that off next time too - and just leave the bleeder open the whole time. I did pull the bleeder out and blast it with air, so it should be clear.
if that doesn't work, i'll try without the adapter and just stuff the hose on it too.

thanks

 

[boston350]

wrapped the bleed screw in tape and that seemed to help a lot, not earing any whistling at the bleeder now. pumped it up and started the process again, still just pulling in air, sounds like blowing into a straw in your soda.
pulled the hose off at the master cylinder coming from the reservoir - fluid came from that just fine, so no blockage there.
since the caliper is used decided to see if I had a leak there. pulled the hose off it, covered the hole and pumped up the sucker - it held vacuum just fine.
since the caliper came with the hose that connects it to the master cyl decided to try that one just to see if it would do anything else. hit it with air to clear it, unbolted the one on and swapped the two. I did notice fresh looking fluid at the 'out' of the master cyl so hoped that was a good sign. I did try to cover the out with my thumb and step on the brake - didn't feel anything - but not sure if I should.
So with the new/different hose connected started the bleed process again and immediately saw a difference. this time I was getting fluid and a small amount of air through the hose into the catch can. filled the catch can twice ~ 80ml making sure the reservoir never got too low. still getting some air through - might be in the system - but I have 0 peddle feel and doesn't appear to be moving the caliper at all.
Am I on the right track and just need to keep bleeding - or does it sound like an issue with the master cyl?
Thanks