CDI questions

[Kolton5543]

Hey guys I'm new to the forums here. I just picked up a 2001 Warrior for stupid cheap but it needs quite a bit of work. My main problem I'm working with right now is ignition.

Now, I'm no professional on CDI ignition but I've got a pretty solid understanding of it. On this particular quad the guy claimed the CDI box is bad. Based on the cracked case and zero continuity through the coil pin to any other pin on the box, I'm going to assume he's right so it will be replaced. My concern is trying to wire it and cost. The only bit of wiring left on the quad is the stator/excitor coil/pick up coil wiring and the reverse light. As for electrical components it has the head/tail lamps, rectifier regulator, CDI, neutral/reverse switch, key switch and the stator assembly. Things like indicator lights, relays, and the starter and all the wiring for them are long gone.

This quad I'm willing to spend a little money on but it's still going to be budget oriented. Before I spend a bunch of money on new parts i want to try to get it to start first. I tried the CDI box that came with it but couldn't get anything. I tried a known working CDI from a Polaris trail boss. I know it's timing curves are all wrong but it should at least allow it to spark which I can't seem to make happen. I've wired the Polaris's CDI into the excitor and pickup coil and turning the crank by hand I can get it to build about 60 volts on the coil wire. Problem is if I actually plug that wire into the coil it won't make any voltage at all. I checked the coil and even used the one from the Polaris's and both of them work fine. I can get a good spark from them using a normal 12 volt battery. After a while of double checking all the connections and reading diagrams the CDI eventually stopped working all together. I can't get it to build more than half a volt on the coil wire. I'm positive it's not a problem with the excitor/pickup coils. Their resistance checks out fine and i can get about 20 volts AC by cranking by hand.

Do you guys think the"good" CDI pooped from coincidence or if there's a problem with my excitor/pick up coils that managed to kill it. I'm 100% positive it wasn't because I wired subverting backwards. If I were to buy a new warrior CDI should I be worried that it'll crap out too. Could I have not been getting spark before just because I couldn't turn the engine over fast enough with a ratchet. Am I going to have to get a starter before being able to properly diagnose spark. For the warrior CDI, does it need 12volt to operate the ignition or can the ignition portion be ran stand alone like a normal box. Is there any pins that need to be shorted to ground or 12 volt in order to run. I've got really good diagrams listing where all the wires lead but none of them had on/off conditions labeled.

 

[Kolton5543]

Also thanks in advance. Please don't tell me to just go and buy a bunch of all new oe parts and do it all right the way it was designed. That cost money and with as much as it will cost plus everything else it needs I would have bought a nice running bike. I'm going to build a harness that includes everything I truly need but if it isn't necessary I may leave it out to save cash and time.

 

[lbjamm]

I think I'd try to find a used wiring harness and CDI and go from there.

 

[bomber315]

i haven't messed with wires in a long time but ill give you what little i can off the top pf my head

first off i have a 94 warrior so different harness, different cdi... use this for what it is worth
my cdi does not depend on the battery to run. i can start my fourwheeler and completely remove the battery. i believe i can even coast start it with no battery at all. i would assume yours is the same, tho do not hold that as fact

the fact that your warrior cdi does not show continuity from the coil pin to any other pin doesn't surprise me. i actually doubt that it is supposed to. im sure there are probably transistors in the cdi that only complete that circuit when it is time to spark.

if your stator coils measure within spec (for resistance) then they should be good. tho as stated prior they might not be good for the polaris cdi

if you look at the yamaha service manual you should be able to figure out where the cdi wires all go and what that normal states are.

im not against building a new harness for it, but i think you would be better off buying a used one like suggested above. it would be a lot of work to build a new harness from scratch and you wouldn't have the nice plugs. (tho i have considered it myself to simplify every thing, i have actually done some little stuff to mine to eliminated a relay or 2, namely the clutch relay) if you want to bounce any questions off of me i may not reply real well here. if i dont reply send me a pm or and email [email protected]

the polaris cdi test is a decent idea but im afraid there are probably too many variables in that. its also possible that your warrior stator coils where putting too much voltage to the polaris cdi... or even not enough. im assuming you connected the polaris cdi with the right safety switches (pins) open and closed

im real surprised you got 60volts on the coil wire turning the crank by hand. quite frankly that doesn't even seem right. the coil wire shouldn't build voltage as far as i understand. the coil wire should be pulsed voltage. voltage pulsed so fast that in fact it cant be read by a standard multimeter. a standard multimeter just doesn't react fast enough. I have never actually done it, but hooking a oscilloscope to the coil wire should show the correct voltage and waveform (square wave?)

 

[Kolton5543]

Well I got lucky. The same day I got paid an eBay seller posted an entire harness with every electrical component but lights and a starter for 180 so I decided to order it. Its more than what I paid for the whole bike but I think it'll be worth it.

By building the harness I was just going to re pin plugs that I already have. The important bits were there still but missing things like the relay plugs and such. Its not to important now though.

You might be right about the coils not being in spec for the Polaris's CDI. I never checked what the Polaris's spec is supposed to be. I tried a second one and I couldnt get it to work either. As for turning it fast enough I was using a ratchet. I could turn it kids as fast as a kick start. For the 60 volt thing it should only pulse that fast while running. It should build vintage at first to charge the coil then pulse it off which will fire the coil but I couldn't ever get it to pulse off.

Anyways, thanks for the thoughts. I'll post back if something comes up at all.

 

[Kolton5543]

So I got the harness in. I wired it up and installed a chain and starter. Hit the button and it's got a bright blue spark. Put the plug back in and it'll pop off but won't actually run. Pulled the plug again and noticed something odd. I realised it's firing way too many times. Like 6 or 7 times per rev. Without the plug in once it gets to its top cranking speed it'll stop sparking all together. If I put my finger over the spark plug hole it'll slow down just a little bit and start sparking like crazy again. I started thinking the pickup and exciter coil were reversed so I switched the plugs around just using jumpers for now. No spark. Then I noticed if I touched one of the jumpers for the pickup wire to the CDI to ground it would spark Everytime it touched. It didn't matter of the engine was turning or not. As long as the key is on it would spark. Is that a normal thing to happen? Is the CDI supposed to be able to make spark using the battery? What do you guys think?

 

[Kolton5543]

Well i got it to start finally. The stator wire colors were wrong. Reversing them did get the multi spark issue. The next issue is ignition timing. It is way advanced. It backfires a lot while trying to start it and refuses to rev. I've read up on it some more and from what I understand is the harness I bough is from like an 87 or 88 warrior and I have a 2001. From what I read, but nothing to truly confirm, the flywheel and stator cover needs to be changed also. Is this true? From what I can find the stator covers look to be identical. Can I just get away with changing only the flywheel?

 

[Kolton5543]

Nevermind that. I have a 2003 harness on a 01 warrior. Now from what I understand is the flywheels on these two are actually the same so this shouldn't be a problem. What do you guys think. Im stumped now. The coils all check within spec and I even tried swapping the stator that came with the harness and its still a no go.

 

[Kolton5543]

Well I think I got it figured out. Im not seeing a woodruff key in the key way. I set it to TDC checking through the spark plug hole and the cam was dead on while the fly wheel is about an inch or so forward. So I've now got a flywheel puller and new key on its way so hopefully that'll be the end of things.