Copper in oil

[MidwayUSA]

Bought an 02 Warrior from a guy recently. Tore it down to the roller and engine to clean it up and fix lots of little stuff that was wrong. Got it all back together and one of the last things was to change the oil. The oil looked like copper glitter and the filter is full of small copper. No steel at all that I can see. Kind of strange to me because I can't think of anything in the engine that has copper anywhere in the engine. The thing runs great and has no out of the ordinary noises.

Any ideas? This is not the original engine. The guy bought another engine because the original locked up. He did use the clutch from the original in this engine. This has me wondering if the clutch in this engine had issues and the debris didn't get flushed out. I did pull the clutch cover to inspect things and didn't see anything out of place. There was lots of copper debris at the bottom lip. I cleaned as much of it out as I could before reinstalling the cover.

 

[98-warrior]

either a clutch disc is rubbing or a seal is rubbing but they aint copper but look like a copper / brass. i would pop the clutch cover off and check the basket and discs.

 

[duneracerweston]

Flush it with deisel and run it again and see if its still doing it

 

[DeadLastRacing]

I'm guessing clutch disks as well.

 

[MidwayUSA]

I sure hope so. Showed the filter to the service guys at the dealer and they didn't really have an answer. There is just so much of it in there, I would think if it was a bushing or crank related, it would be hammering or something. Thing runs great, shifts through all the gears ok, etc. Anyway I will pull the cover again tonight and pull the clutches and see if there is anything obvious. If not, I guess I'll flush it out and give it a go.

 

[DeadLastRacing]

Got a pic of the debris?

 

[MidwayUSA]

Yes and they are large. I pulled the clutch tonight and all looked good there. Sprayed out the crankcase as much as possible with brake clean. Checked the filter and wasn't any new stuff in it yet. Sprayed that area clean and re-installed filter. Filled with new oil and rode for about 30 minutes and ran it kind of hard. No odd noises, no kaboom, and ran and shifted great. Guess I will ride for a while, change oil and keep an eye on it.

http://www.performancemachine.net/P6270001.JPG
http://www.performancemachine.net/P6270002.JPG
http://www.performancemachine.net/P6270003.JPG

 

[DeadLastRacing]

Humm, weird. What color is the material on your clutch disks?

Least its all consistent in shape and color, whatever IT is. That's a good thing.

Has the engine had any work to it? Nikasil Plating?........but on a 4stroke? I dunno man. Keep an eye on your oil changes and filters. Let us know what you see.

 

[MidwayUSA]

No work done that he was aware of. Original engine crank went out and he bought this 98 engine off E-Bay in 08. Said he did a clutch in 09. The quad was not very well maintained so who knows.

Clutch disc color is black with some silver and gray flecks to it. No copper color at all. Just makes no sense to me at all. There is nothing I can think of in the engine that should be copper looking except for the stator wiring. If it was grinding up, I would think there would be some electrical issues.

Today I tore down the spare engine the guy gave me with the quad. I cannot find but maybe one gear in the transmission that has a bushing in it and it is not copper color at all. Eventually will get a crank for this original engine and build it up, but was hoping to get some hours out of this one.

Strange but short of tearing it down, I may never know.

 

[bones]

looks like someone put stop leak in it to me

 

[duneracerweston]

Or maybe it ate a stator and they changed it and didn't. Change the oil

 

[jgray44]

almost looks like they sandblasted the motor and some got into it.

 

[98-warrior]

maybe its from the filter itself cause the yamaha one are that color.

 

[MidwayUSA]

Took it and rode at the local ATV park for about and hour. Runs great and I love this thing. I need to work on the caliper slides on the front brakes and thought if I get time I may pull the filter cover and look it over. Still no clue what it is and the way it runs, not really interested in tearing it down. Not sure I would find anything wrong!! Plan to run it till it quits or till I get the other engine rebuilt whichever comes first.

 

[jasonp]

From what I can tell it's either the pin or the con rod bearing coming appart in my opinion... really only place in the engine with...

 

[MidwayUSA]

When I tore the original engine down, it had lost a rod bearing in a bad way and there was only silver flakes in the crank case and filter. Not one bit that looked copper like those pics I posted. Also looked at the crank pin side washers and they don't appear to have any copper color to them either.

 

[bomber315]

looks like someone put stop leak in it to me

i agree... as a matter of fact i highly agree... if it were anything else you would have figured it out by now with either a gear evacuating the case or the rod ceaseing to be a "connecting" rod

 

[MidwayUSA]

i agree... as a matter of fact i highly agree... if it were anything else you would have figured it out by now with either a gear evacuating the case or the rod ceaseing to be a "connecting" rod

It sure is the right consistency and there was so much of it there. I feel lots better about it after cleaning the case out then finally getting to do some trail riding with it. Time will tell. Even if it blows at least I have the original engine to build up the way I'd like.

 

[MidwayUSA]

Pulled the Stator cover tonight. No problems there. Has an aftermarket stator. Imagine that. Pulled the filter and looked at it. Some more copper in there but about 1/10 as much as the initial change. Put a magnet to the stuff and doesn't stick to magnet. Not soluble in oil and brake clean does not affect it either.

Running great but fighting tune on the carb a little. Slight hesitation off idle and at low RPM. Tried bigger pilot and it didn't like that at all. Went back stock pilot and tweaked the air screw and it got better. Main is stock 145 I think. Should it have a bigger main with the full DG exhaust? I'm at about 1300 ft.

 

[bomber315]

yeah i would guess you could put a 150 or a 155 in it. 4 stokes arent as finiky as your 2 stroke banshee. but they will get hot just the smae if the jets are too lean