Big Problem!! Open to suggestions

[87warriorbeast]

ok, I was out riding the 98 warrior the other night it was running great and starting really easy like usual although it was very cold out. I was topping it out across this field and we all stopped to bs for a minute or two. then I fired back up no problem and starting doing some donuts, as soon as I got it sliding the bike died. I hit the start button and nothing happened. so I pulled the seat off and the negative battery terminal was completely melted! what would cause this?

That night we tried to bump start it, but all i did was slide. the motor would not turn in order to bump. Just today i put another battery in it and now the start button just clicks, it doesn't even try to turn the starter, I don't think any power is getting to the starter. I jumped the starter solenoid with a screw driver it it turns the motor, but only like one revelution. I pulled the plug and it turns the motor good and I am getting a strong spark. I checked over all the wiring and it looks good, no signs of shorting out or melting.

Any suggestions on what could have caused this problem and what to start checking to fix it is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Travis

 

[jarheadoo7]

melted the negative terminal? wow sounds like a major power spike or short.. did it blow the fuse?

 

[87warriorbeast]

I was looking for the fuse close to starter solenoid and there was not one there... I know my 87 has one, ill put one inline now. I was curious if the one way bearing went bad for the starter and it was spinning that starter like crazy if it could sorta backfeed to the battery? not sure if that is ever possible, but it's just a thought. It was a new starter though...

this bike started so easy before, so much better than my 87 and my buddies 03. it also has a new cdi on it so I was told from the previous owner.

 

[jarheadoo7]

well it probally melted the terminal becasue there was no fuse.. and with electrical shorts lots of crazy things can happen so your theory about the starter coudl be possible... can you take the starter out and bench test it?

 

[87warriorbeast]

I have no problem taking the starter out, but really what will that tell me. The starter turns when I jump the solenoid with a screwdriver... is bench testing any different from that. I am just unsure.

 

[jarheadoo7]

yeha not really.. never mind about taking it out and bench testing it.. i typed before i comprehended what i read.

if the starter works.. whats next on the line of things that make the bikes start? do you think it fried the button out? or shorted a wire powering the starter/button?

 

[87warriorbeast]

I have an extra start button and stuff I will try, but the one in it makes the solenoid click but the starter does not even try to turn when I hit the button. I also noticed one of the relays (the one on the left toward the front of the bike) was getting pretty warm. I just don't understand when I jump the solenoid the bike only cranks like one revolution but if I take the plug out it keeps turning and turning with no problem. could the starter just be weak? like the brushes got shorted out or something? I am sorta lost with this one. I can do all the mechanical stuff, but I don't really like dealing with electrical stuff.

Thanks for all the ideas, I really appreciate them.

Another question... although the battery melted, shouldnt the bike still run? these bikes only need the batter to start right? The bike died that night, but it's getting good spartk now. It's like a car right the bike can run off the stator just like a car can run off the alternator.....

 

[1998yamahawarrior]

is the battery fully charged, also when mine has done the clicking thing i took the starter off and cleaned where it contact the engine on both the endine and starter. the starter grounds viea the bolt and mounting surface

 

[yamarider]

If the one way bearing stuck there's no way the starter would have generated the amount of power it would take to melt an 8 gauge cable, that cable can handle hundreds of amps and that starter couldn't crank out 20.

Take your plastics off and take a careful look at your battery cables, specifically the positive side. My first guess is that the insulation rubbed through on the cable close to the battery, against the subframe, and that short is what fried the terminal, your negative cable just happened to be the weaker one.

If you get a click when you push the starter button then the starter button itself and it's wiring are good, the next step to check would be if you get voltage to the small wires on the solenoid when you push the starter button.

Most likely the reason that you're only getting one revolution out of the engine when you short the solenoid is that the battery is fubared from being shorted out, and it doesn't have enough power to turn it over, and stops when it gets to the compression stroke. Taking the spark plug out relieves the compression, so there's no resistance for it to turn against.

Yes, assuming that the stator is working and didn't fry during this carnage, the warrior can run without a battery.

 

[87warriorbeast]

I have looked over the wiring quite a few times and can't find any rub or burn spots. I have a good charge battery in it now and it's turning over better, but only by jumping the solenoid. while I was doing this I noticed that the stud on the starter where the power goes in is getting very hot. alos the positive battery terminal is getting warm along with the starter relay. I am going to pull the starter and try to clean every thing up. I have never done this before, do I have to drain the oil to take the starter out??

 

[jasonp]

A simple thing you can do to tell if it is the starter is to hook at battery up with jumpers. Hook it straight to the starter. If it turns the engine over then you know the starter is good. If that turns out good I would see how much voltage drop you have across the the positive side and then move to the ground side. You will find the problem this way.

 

[jasonp]

I have looked over the wiring quite a few times and can't find any rub or burn spots. I have a good charge battery in it now and it's turning over better, but only by jumping the solenoid. while I was doing this I noticed that the stud on the starter where the power goes in is getting very hot. alos the positive battery terminal is getting warm along with the starter relay. I am going to pull the starter and try to clean every thing up. I have never done this before, do I have to drain the oil to take the starter out??

No draining oil.
2, 8mm socket head bolts hold the starter in.

 

[87warriorbeast]

ok I took the starter out and used the battery charger to test the starter. It turned, but in my opinion was a bit slow and didn't really sound the healthiest. I have rebuilt starter for small block chevys before, so I decided to dig into this one.

I was pulling it apart and noticed that the wire that goes from one of the brushes to the stud for power only had a couple strands left on it and there was broke plastic pieces in there. should have all those plastic pieces held the power stud up off the case? it seems to be like the stud could have actually grounded out on the case of the starter itself.... is this possible?

 

[jasonp]

ok I took the starter out and used the battery charger to test the starter. It turned, but in my opinion was a bit slow and didn't really sound the healthiest. I have rebuilt starter for small block chevys before, so I decided to dig into this one.

I was pulling it apart and noticed that the wire that goes from one of the brushes to the stud for power only had a couple strands left on it and there was broke plastic pieces in there. should have all those plastic pieces held the power stud up off the case? it seems to be like the stud could have actually grounded out on the case of the starter itself.... is this possible?

Yes sounds to me like you found your problem.

 

[87warriorbeast]

Well I took the starter off of my 87 and put it on this bike and it does the same thing, I also used the known good battery out of the 87. the starter button just makes it click at the solenoid and when I jump the solenoid it still only gets one revolution, slows to almost a stop and then another revolution. and the power stud coming out of the starter is still getting pretty hot. I replaced the relays also. Any other ideas?? It did backfire hard out the exhaust one time. either way I need a starter if anybody has an extra they want to sell...

Once again any help/ideas are greatly appreciated.

 

[yamarider]

Try connecting your power directly to the starter with jumper cables, instead of using the factory wiring. I'm still suspecting that you have a bad battery cable/starter cable/ground cable soewhere.

If it does the same thing still you might have internal engine problems to look into, that hard backfire might have thrown the cam chain or made it jump a few teeth, which could keep the valves from opening.

 

[87warriorbeast]

ok, so here is what i have now. I decided to check the timing marks. and the cam gear is a little past the mark when the T is lined up. I believe this is the correct way to check, if I am wrong please correct me. It may be off one tooth, could this one tooth cause this hard of starting? I took some pictures. and the T is lined up perfect its just the angle of the picture.

so if i take the chain tenshioner off will this give me enough slack to move the cam gear back a tooth? or do I have to tear it down farther? Also if I move it back one tooth it seems like the mark would then be just a little before the casting arrow when the T is lined up. I know I could just try it, but I like hearing a certain yes or now before I try. It's the first time I am working on a four wheeler motor and I am sure there are other beginners out there that would have the same questions. I understand the basics and am mechanically inclined, just always worked on small and big block chevys.

 

[1998yamahawarrior]

thats how mine looks its fine, have you tryed yamarider suggestion about connecting cables directly to the stater

 

[yamarider]

That is going to be as close as you'll get it. When the chains stretch out it's going to throw off the alignment a little bit, that much wouldn't be enough to cause the issues you're having.

 

[87warriorbeast]

I just connected jumper cable directly to the starter and it turns over much better. It actually fired and ran for about 5 seconds. but it almost sounds like the starter is still turning when the motor is running. Is it possible for the one way bearing to stick? When I jump it and I let off right at the top of the compression and the piston is sorta forced back down... sort kicks back... I can hear the starter turn when it does this. Thanks again for all the input it is greatly appreciated.